Mitsuo Katsui was born in Tokyo in 1931, and has continued to live in Japan through World War II, the recent Tsunami and the globalization and commodification of Japanese culture. Starting off early in his career by conceptualizing maps and brochures, Katsui was on the design team that came up with some of the first universal pictograms for the Tokyo Olympic Games in 1964. Since then, Katsui has gone on to design graphics for posters, books, calendars, and much more in his own colorful, bold abstract style – at once instantly recognizable and collectively understood, transcending language barriers. Here, we asked him about the language of graphic design, and how his on-going legacy translates within the arena of digital art.

 

Hesperios

What made you decide to become an artist, and what was happening in Tokyo at the time?

Mitsuo Katsui

I was born in 1931, and in 1937 the Sino-Japanese war started. Then, another war followed, WWII. When that happened, I was a fourth grade pupil. My family was living in Tokyo, the Nihonbashi area at the time. Our house was completely burnt down during one of the first Tokyo airstrikes, on November 30th, when I was thirteen. At fourteen years old, I left Tokyo and became a child evacuee. When WWII was over, after a year of evacuation in the countryside of Japan, I came back to Tokyo. What I saw was the city completely destroyed, burnt down to the ground, and I grew up in the midst of it. During the eight years of WWII, 50–80 million people had died. If I had been a little older, I would have been sent to the war as a boy soldier. It didn’t happen to me, but boys only two years ahead of me, they went to the war. Young people with promising futures went to war. I was a teenager, who had just started looking out at the world around me, when the war ended. As a son of merchants, I was surrounded by various well designed packages and other sophisticated commercial products, but the impact from the war was colliding into my reality more heavily. Especially, the education. What had been taught was reversed completely when Japan was defeated. I had received trainings, encamping, at a military institution that was later questioned. Japan had to start denying the values that the teachers and the government had instilled us, suddenly. My life started that way, in a very complicated situation, I’d say, the turnaround of history of Japan.

Hesperios

How did you decide to become an artist under such circumstances? Did you think about striving to represent Japan, creating from zero, when Japan had literally nothing, to have a new start?

Mitsuo Katsui 

When you are creating from nothing, you definitely need strength and empowerment within yourself, because you are the one who shapes the future. You need to envision the future. Same applies to the designing process, the power of creating from scratch. I think I naturally learned it from the circumstance I faced at that time.

Hesperios

You were only sixteen, when the war ended. What direction did your parents and the adults around you hope for the young people to have?

Mitsuo Katsui 

— Probably, what I can guess now is that pre-war Japan romanticized militarism, for children to fight for the country, which vanished completely in the end. So my parents wished me to pursue what I had passion for. Amid the huge shifting of a society as a whole, I was a sensitive teenager good at mathematics and making things. I had a very vague idea of studying architecture. Especially when what you see around you was an empty field with burnt down buildings. My parents were supportive of what I wanted to do.

Hesperios

Among those authors, novelists, and artists of the same period, who struck you the most as a teenager and as an adult?

Mitsuo Katsui 

The book, Iki no Ko¯zo¯ by Sho¯zo¯ Kuki, published in 1930. I bought this book when I was eighteen, full of aspiration to study architecture. The title says, The Structure of “Iki,” so I thought this was an architectural book.

Hesperios

Oh, it wasn’t? It seems that’s what it meant to be, how you encountered this book just by luck. “Iki” has multiple meanings… Is it more like a philosophy?

Mitsuo Katsui

Yes. It’s a philosophical book. Mr. Kuki went to Paris after graduating from the University of Tokyo, to study further in the midst of the philosophers leading modern European philosophy at the time. He was around 37 years old or so, when he realized that “iki” is ultimately what underlines the Japanese aesthetics: indirect, understated. Then he started writing about it. He completed the book at 40 years old. When he came back to Japan with his book, a professor of philosophy at Kyoto University, Mr. Nishida acknowledged his work, and gave him a post. This is the story behind the book. So, what is “iki”? There’s a saying that if he’s a real Edokko native to the city of Edo he will not let tomorrow’s sun rise on his earnings. Live in the present, never prepare himself too much for future. That was considered coolness. Or a very particular sentiment, almost painfully sentimental to something ephemeral. I can give you more examples, it may be difficult to comprehend for a young person. If you talk about “iki”’s idea of seduction, it is to find beauty in the necklines of ladies, or even finding sexy something as subtle as toe muscles in sandals.

Hesperios

We still say that, women who attain distinct elegance or a style, we call them women with “iki.”

Mitsuo Katsui

Yes, those women are certainly “iki.” In Kansai, the western part of Japan, they pronounce it “sui,” making it sound similar to the word for “essence” in Japanese.

Hesperios

We also say these fishes are with “iki,” meaning they are fresh. We still use the word “iki” for someone, something powerful and dynamic.

Mitsuo Katsui

Energetic, attracting, or straining, you know, that particular look you see in Kabuki. All these should be considered “iki,” too.

Hesperios

The allure that resides in a very faint, instantaneous moment.

Mitsuo Katsui

“Iki” is about the fleeting moment, that you could easily miss. Someone never submissive, self-sufficient, he/she obtains that mood around them. Or an object that represents those traits. The idea of “iki” also affects fashion trends. Stripes were considered “iki” for a kimono pattern at that time. They went out in the city wearing striped kimono. It was a stylish fashion practice in the city of Edo, to show a very fine textile only partially from the edge of kimono collars. They liked such understated manners. If you don’t know the codes, you will miss what’s cool about it. So, with “iki” you are discussing more the glamour in gesture. “Iki” from its sound, in Japanese it could mean to live, to breathe, but we are talking about this “iki.” It’s about drawing a parallel between juxtaposing elements.

This book certainly opened my eyes, but I cannot say I got what’s in the book entirely. But later, as a graphic designer, I had a chance to make a PR brochure, advising everyone to read The Structure of Iki. This was when I was in my mid-30s. Such a great coincidence, you know I grabbed my old copy and read the book again.

Hesperios

So you came back to this book to study, constantly.

Mitsuo Katsui 

What is written in this book became my backbone.

Hesperios

After the encounter with the book that gave you tremendous impact in your teenage years, what did you discover later as an adult?

Mitsuo Katsui

It revealed the connection between architecture and graphic design to me. As a graphic designer, I owe hugely to the diagram in the book. It gave me a huge impact as a teenager and as an adult, throughout my life. When the book was published in 1930, it coincided with the development of metropolitan New York. The Empire State building was completed in 1929, among other skyscrapers. On the contrary, there was the Tokyo Central Post Office and some Marunouchi building near Tokyo station. It was largely an open field.

Hesperios

What was the biggest risk you’ve taken to reach your lifetime goal? Did you wish to be criticized for designing something unconventional or follow the mainstream to avoid that?

Mitsuo Katsui 

Yusaku Kamekura is a great graphic designer, senior by 15 years. There is a gap between him and our generation, because of the war. Big chunk of generations were gone. There was no one who could to represent the generation between us. When the World Design Conference was held in 1960 to showcase the most progressive designs for architecture, graphic design, ID, etc. The main designers at the conference were designers about 45 years of age. So they had to invite very young designers to make up.

Hesperios

The first of the kind in Japan?

Mitsuo Katsui 

Yes, it was the first design convention in Japan. There were not many design meetings in the world at that time. The 1960s in Japan was when the country was growing rapidly as a whole. Exporting business was on the rise, especially. When you are running a trading business, you need products to export. That meant that the Japanese business community, and the government backed the convention. Architects took the lead. Among all those categories, graphic design joined the meeting for the first time. It didn’t limit within Japan, attendees were from all over the world. We were expecting the Tokyo Olympics four years later, to be the first international event that acknowledge Japan as a modernized, fully globalized nation. The young designers in their 30’s contributed to the event’s design process by directing the basic manipulations in design. Main posters were to be designed by the acclaimed designer, namely Mr. Kamekura.

Hosting an international event, like the Olympics, means accommodating athletes and judges from 120 nations. They speak different languages. At the Olympic games, it is required to have signs in English, French, and the language of the hosting country. You know, Japanese is quite an exotic language. When so many people with different backgrounds are attending, graphical interpretation needs to be presented, such as pictograms. You can immediately tell this is for ladies, when it’s graphically represented; wearing skirts, wearing pants, it’s easy. The idea originally started in Europe. Isotype was developed as a means of communication, by the sociologist, Otto Neurath. Europe is an multi-lingual society, so was developed out of necessity. Communication without verbalizing. We decided to incorporate this design system for the Tokyo Olympics. In Japan, we have something similar to isotype: the family crest. In the family crest, simplified objects, in highly abstract forms represent the family graphically. It’s a very particularly Japanese way to reduce the elements into abstraction. So for the Japanese young designers in their 30’s, isotype wasn’t a completely unfamiliar idea. Designing pictograms started like that.

Hesperios

You are the one who worked on formalizing the system of pictograms?

Mitsuo Katsui 

Yes, the international standardized system was constructed for the first time. This work was socially acknowledged and made more people recognize what design could employ. These pictograms have become already familiar for to everyone by now, but the Tokyo Olympics in 1964 was the first Olympics that employed a picture language.

Hesperios

First in the world?

Mitsuo Katsui

Yes. Then we donated the pictograms to the International Olympics Committee and told them to feel free to use them in future Olympics.

Hesperios

It must have drawn so much attention from the public by doing that.

Mitsuo Katsui 

It was later introduced in Munich, and other Olympics. As a result, Japan contributed to the internationalization of pictograms.

Hesperios

Did you have any kind of fear starting out those new ideas and concepts?

Mitsuo Katsui

I don’t think I did that time. You know, being in your 30’s. Still physically young and active like in your 20’s, and there’s always something new happening. Started making money on your own, having nights out surrounded with your friends. Staying up all night, relentlessly trying to find fun. Being young. Men in their 30’s could do something extreme. When Tokyo was hosting the Olympics, I had a chance to go to Europe. At the time the exchange rate was fixed to 360 JPY to one USD, and I could bring only up to 500 USD with me. Foreign policy, you can do nothing about it. It was the situation at the time, and was my first visit to Europe at 33 years old. The amount and the size of the heritage in Europe blew my mind.

Hesperios

Where in Europe did you go?

Mitsuo Katsui 

I started in Amsterdam. I figured out I wouldn’t able to watch the Olympic games while I was working on the projects. Then I heard there was a Dutch airline transporting athletes to Japan that would be empty on the way back, so I got on.

Hesperios

Was it free?

Mitsuo Katsui

No it wasn’t, unfortunately, but it was cheap. Cheap ticket, but still couldn’t carry money with me. It was just two or three days before the opening when tickets for the games and ceremonies were circulated among the designers who participated. So I gave them to my colleagues, forgot about it, and headed to Europe on my own.

Hesperios

You went to Amsterdam.

Mitsuo Katsui

When I stepped out the airplane, as soon as I realized that this was the country of Rietveld and Mondrian, I shuddered with excitement. Though the airport was nothing like how it is now, nothing modern or grand about the place, you got off the plane and a bus carried you to the immigration counter. It wasn’t even a direct flight then. I had to stop over in Anchorage, Alaska. I used the bathroom while waiting for another plane in Anchorage, and the signs for the bathroom were something like, ‘Men!’ ‘Women!’ with exclamation marks, in Kanji.

Terrible handwriting. No trace of isotype or pictogram. That was the era. I went to vintage book stores in Amsterdam, and found all these graphics from encyclopedias and maps. Such a great legacy from the past. So this experience nourished and became part of me. I started to feel there needs to be something Japanese graphic design could build on. This became a goal for me through my 30’s and 40’s as a professional graphic designer.

Hesperios

I’ve heard you are a big Japanese movie fan.

Mitsuo Katsui 

It doesn’t necessarily have to be a Japanese film. Quite a variety, I watch. My favorite director is De Sica, you may not recognize his name, but his Miracle in Milan is one of my favorite films. Full of delight, it makes you feel like jumping up and flying off the Duomo. He actually does, in the movie. Feeling wind on his back. Such a great movie. So humane. Another recommendation from me would be La Strada by Federico Fellini. The story is about this street performer. The main character is actually the director’s wife. And Kanal by Andrzej Wajda, that’s quite a grim one. And Wim Wenders, of course. Wings of Desire. Every year, we donate our services to remember when the atomic bomb was dropped in Hiroshima. The movie instantly inspired me. With the image of humans with wings, like Icarus, coming down from the sky.

Hesperios

This question is about your creative process. You worked with Issey Miyake on PLEATS PLEASE. How did that collaboration happen?

Mitsuo Katsui 

Herbert Bayer, the graphic designer, trained at Bauhaus, he started the International Design Conference at Aspen, in Colorado. I remember it was sometime around 1982, when they held the Japan day. Many designers were invited to visit. Mr. Miyake was one of them, participating in the conference as a fashion designer. He had a fashion show of his label, and it was really well received. He invites designers around to get involved in his projects. That was how the collaboration started. Issey has many designer friends, so I did the graphic design for Book Design in Japan. It’s made of film. Digital patterns.

In the middle of a meeting at Issey’s studio, Mr. Minagawa, the textile designer saw my design for the book, and just jumped out from the studio and came to ask me to collaborate for PLEATS PLEASE.

Hesperios

So, your book cover came out first.

Mitsuo Katsui 

 A book cover can be for human bodies, it’s been proved.

Hesperios

You have witnessed Japan ferociously progress since the Tokyo Olympics. Today, in your opinion, what direction is Japan in, going forward? What do you expect, or hope for Japan in the future?

Mitsuo Katsui

In Japan, we had a huge earthquake in 2011, we call it 311 here. Thinking back on the periods I went through, already in the 70’s, almost all the problems had already surfaced. They were already there, social maladies, from a culture heavily centered on economic progress, the relentless consumption of resources, and the resulting food depletions, among others. We kept ignoring the warnings, and decades later, we are starting to face the problems finally. I’m reading this book, called Small is Beautiful, again. The book is really enlightening. It was published in 1972, written by E.F Shumacher. It talks about the idea of minimizing our lives versus the idea of extending the realm with the aim of scientific advances; the two extremes. We have to utilize both of these contrasting concepts, unless we won’t be able to progress any further. This is what I have been thinking. Japan is much richer, as a result of economic success. Electronics and such. However, having too much information, too much scraps, has brought a completely new set of problems. Global warming and destruction of nature are what we have to consider as warnings. I think Small is Beautiful is the key to rescale our lives. Technology made us lazy, as an animal, whereas technologically highly advanced us to bring us into space.

Hesperios

Do you think going back to simple living is necessary?

Mitsuo Katsui

We are definitely living in a crucial time. I think this is the time we have to pivot around from what we have placed a great deal of weight on, what we have considered the most essential. Simply dropping what’s running requires too much force. What is important is to sustain the progress we have to redefine the goal for our society. On a large scale, reallocating social resources, or cultural resources can be one of the answers. Redefining our society to become human-centered is what design should explore relentlessly. We need to find the bright side of even the seemingly harsh incidents in our society.

Let’s consider DNA. It was discovered in 1955, and it took 50 years to decode entirely. Decoding what constitutes a human being. Reevaluate what we already obtained, from nature and from society. This is what I consider as one of the viewpoints design should keep progress with.

Hesperios

Do you have any physical hobbies that you do every day to keep balanced in your life?

Mitsuo Katsui 

Take a walk. Just to keep up my strength. I go take a walk regularly. Playing golf is to me something derived from my habit, taking a walk. I started playing when I was 30.

Hesperios

Quite hilly in this neighborhood. Must be a good exercise.

Mitsuo Katsui

And traveling. Hot springs if traveling in Japan. When my children were little, we used to go to Guam, Saipan, Seashell . . . in spring, summer, New Year vacation, three times a year. I am glad we did it to make it become part of their childhood memories.

Hesperios

What art emotionally moves you?

Mitsuo Katsui

In 2010, I saw an art installation by Olafur Eliasson in Beijing. He creates very intense art pieces characterized by his unique way of handling lighting and its effects. My son told me about it and I went there right away. There is an area called 798 Art District, where they renovated military factories into an art space. It’s a storage-like space about 50 meters by 15 meters, the entire space was completely filled with an atmosphere of color, with lights coming down from the top. It was incredible. I have seen his exhibitions before, but this piece Feelings are Facts in collaboration with Chinese architect Ma Yansong deeply moved me. He was already my favorite artist by then, but I didn’t know he had made a space like this with this kind of intensity. So touching.

I also like James Turrell a lot. Yes, and Bill Viola. Viola lived in Japan for a year and a half studying Zen Buddhism. And he was touched by the idea of Zen and he created new pieces of work in Japan. Viola’s motto and many of his beliefs are based in Japanese sophistication and sympathy. Foreign people who come to Japan take advantage of Japanese culture. I believe great arts have emerged in response to this encounter of two different cultures.

Hesperios

Have you ever created something considered controversial?

Mitsuo Katsui

Not me, but someone I influenced, the Dutch artist Rafael Rozendaal. My friend told me that he named me as his favorite artist, and introduced my works with lights, on the internet, in his blog. I became curious about him, because he is showcasing my work. He creates his pieces to show on computer screens, incorporating abstract lights. These are moving images. In fact, I had made something very similar before, only his images are more fleeing and dynamic in motion. This is what makes him so unique. I was stunned, not just because he favored my works, but more importantly, the genes in my works are passed on to him, acting like a medium, and transformed and grew in him. And they are published on the internet, with an URL assigned to every piece, and he sells those URLs. An URL is always unique, there is no other identical URL anywhere in the world, so it does make sense that these are what he sells. He prices them quite well. I could have influenced him only to a certain extent. Totally different idea and works. How he sells is very interesting and smart. The person who purchases those URL has to continue to put it on the internet, open access to view. However, the person who purchases them could use them for commercial purposes, or even sell them to another person. That is how they sign contracts with the artist. Sort of a digital tableau on the internet. So he created a whole new scheme in the industry. How my DNA evolved, completely in an unexpected direction, shocked me. A huge shock.

Hesperios

So, controversy. You are the one who got agitated.

Mitsuo Katsui 

Someone could become interested in my work, that I knew, but he brought it to a completely new level.